Adult Content?

[Leotrak]

Badly written sex scenes are awesome...

And hilarious depending on what words are used

... I usually find those awkward ">_>

[Worthington]

I need to get around to that "The opinions expressed herein do not represent the opinion of Somnova Studios as a whole." sign...

[Anxa]

As long as nobody starts fooling themselves into thinking the goal of this project is to reach as wide and mainstream an audience as possible, since the impression I've gotten is this is not the objective. If that's not the motivating factor for arguing for/against, then continue; some good opinions flying around.

[turbulentDuvet]

Just my tuppence on the subject of h-scenes.

I think KS done well, and I don't see a problem with portraying adolescent teens doing vanilla stuff. This fixation with 'more' sexy sexytime is out of place imo considering the subject matter; teens being teens and being curious about their sexuality.

I think a similar outlook with MS, assuming that the team are going to include h-scenes will serve them well. After all the most appealign thing about KS was that it sand-blasted the whole "katawa" thing and made you realise these characters are just as fucked up as the rest of us at the end of the day before you start to look at the superficial difference.

<3

[MDV]

I think a similar outlook with MS, assuming that the team are going to include h-scenes will serve them well. After all the most appealign thing about KS was that it sand-blasted the whole "katawa" thing and made you realise these characters are just as fucked up as the rest of us at the end of the day before you start to look at the superficial difference.

I disagree, our characters will be more 'fucked up' than the rest of us. Mental Disabilties are real, not some superficial social construct.

[Pilgrimm]

I think a similar outlook with MS, assuming that the team are going to include h-scenes will serve them well. After all the most appealign thing about KS was that it sand-blasted the whole "katawa" thing and made you realise these characters are just as fucked up as the rest of us at the end of the day before you start to look at the superficial difference.

I disagree, our characters will be more 'fucked up' than the rest of us. Mental Disabilties are real, not some superficial social construct.

I disagree with MDV. Although mental disabilities are real, that doesn't necessarily mean the person is more "fucked up" than other people. Hanako, for example in KS, could technically be more "fucked up" than most people with a disability, because of her background. It depends on the person and how they deal with their own situations. That's just my two cents though, and I could be wrong too (I probably am wrong lol).

[MDV]

I think a similar outlook with MS, assuming that the team are going to include h-scenes will serve them well. After all the most appealign thing about KS was that it sand-blasted the whole "katawa" thing and made you realise these characters are just as fucked up as the rest of us at the end of the day before you start to look at the superficial difference.

I disagree, our characters will be more 'fucked up' than the rest of us. Mental Disabilties are real, not some superficial social construct.

I disagree with MDV. Although mental disabilities are real, that doesn't necessarily mean the person is more "fucked up" than other people. Hanako, for example in KS, could technically be more "fucked up" than most people with a disability, because of her background. It depends on the person and how they deal with their own situations. That's just my two cents though, and I could be wrong too (I probably am wrong lol).

I think you are. If mental disabilities aren't real and just superficial, all those pills are for nothing, all the shunning from society is for nothing. All the therapy and hard work to get over difficulties would be a big lie. I refuse to believe it is. That would actually be much worse than being different than others, which isn't really that bad. Some people might be able to deal with it, but that still means they have something to deal with.

[Pilgrimm]

I think a similar outlook with MS, assuming that the team are going to include h-scenes will serve them well. After all the most appealign thing about KS was that it sand-blasted the whole "katawa" thing and made you realise these characters are just as fucked up as the rest of us at the end of the day before you start to look at the superficial difference.

I disagree, our characters will be more 'fucked up' than the rest of us. Mental Disabilties are real, not some superficial social construct.

I disagree with MDV. Although mental disabilities are real, that doesn't necessarily mean the person is more "fucked up" than other people. Hanako, for example in KS, could technically be more "fucked up" than most people with a disability, because of her background. It depends on the person and how they deal with their own situations. That's just my two cents though, and I could be wrong too (I probably am wrong lol).

I think you are. If mental disabilities aren't real and just superficial, all those pills are for nothing, all the shunning from society is for nothing. All the therapy and hard work to get over difficulties would be a big lie. I refuse to believe it is. That would actually be much worse than being different than others, which isn't really that bad. Some people might be able to deal with it, but that still means they have something to deal with.

I think you may have misunderstood me. I am not saying that mental disabilities aren't real. I'm just saying that having one doesn't necessarily make you "fucked up". It depends on how the person deals with their disability, and of course the disability itself. Trying to group all the disabilities under on title or word is impossible. Although I don't know anything about the story itself, or which disabilities will be portrayed, I can say that I doubt that the characters would be more "fucked up" than some of the people in KS as well.

[MDV]

Hmm, in this case I took 'fucked up' as 'clearly different/wrong from the norm' and 'superficial' as 'not real'.

[WolfHunner]

I can just imagine the main character having sex with some bi-polar girl then getting the shit beat out of him.

[Worthington]

I can just imagine the main character having sex with some bi-polar girl then getting the shit beat out of him.

Good sir, I do think you misunderstand how bipolar disorder works.

[WolfHunner]

I can just imagine the main character having sex with some bi-polar girl then getting the shit beat out of him.

Good sir, I do think you misunderstand how bipolar disorder works.

Yup

[mysterycycle]

Personally, I would prefer that there weren't. Obviously the devs are going to do what they think is best for the story, and I'll play one way or another, but assuming they may be open to feedback, I'm casting my vote against the inclusion of H-scenes.

If it's included, I hope that the devs can maintain the same degree of verisimilitude (teens, especially virgin teens, aren't likely to be acting out fetish porn scenes when they get intimate) and importance to character-development and story-development that Katawa Shoujo did with their scenes. I felt they were generally well-written, and I appreciated the fact that not every H-scene was meant to come across as necessarily a good thing for the characters to do.

I think it's also notable that at least a couple of the 4LS devs have stated their feelings that, if they could go back, they wouldn't have included H-scenes in KS.

[Pilgrimm]

I just finished Kanon, and I can one major issue that KEY did when they added the H-scenes after the VN came out. In Ayu's arc, the H-scene did nothing for the story or character development. It was almost as if it was thrown in just to satisfy the readers who had a craving for that kind of thing and it made me a bit angry. But then again in Mai's arc it fit in with the story perfectly, and added to character development as well as plot. So it can go either way. If you do include the H-scenes, I'm sure you will do a good job on them, and not just put them in for the few people who care for 5 minutes of porn in their novel.

[MDV]

Funny how we seem to think the exact opposite Pilgrimm. If anything makes me cringe in stories, it's attempts at 'deep' sex scenes. Really, when writers try to end up writing some screwing 'but more than just porn', they usually end up writing even less than porn. A deep sex scene is like a deep eating scene or a deep crapping scene.

[TheLastMelody]

Funny how we seem to think the exact opposite Pilgrimm. If anything makes me cringe in stories, it's attempts at 'deep' sex scenes. Really, when writers try to end up writing some screwing 'but more than just porn', they usually end up writing even less than porn. A deep sex scene is like a deep eating scene or a deep crapping scene.

I other words, theoretically possible, but very hard to actually achieve?

[Worthington]

Anybody remember that bit in Cowboy Bebop where Jet and Spike are eating those eggs? That was a deep eating scene.
Pretty sure I've seen a movie with a deep crapping scene somewhere as well.

[whiic]

Personally, I would prefer that there weren't [sex scenes of any sorts].

It's technically possible but considering humans are sexually active animals, it would be an unrealistic portrayal.

Of course fitting in sex to EVERY route could feel forced but there's really no option of going a middle road where some routes had sex and others had none. These VNs are either ero... or non-ero. If you have sex in one route, the reader would expect sex in the next route, if not early in the route then in the end. Otherwise it would feel "incomplete", like the story was left unfinished. What happened then? Neutral (and bad) ends can however end like this as they're supposed to leave either a bad or incomplete feeling to the reading.

You could also have a character that only had bad and neutral endings but it would likely cause frustration to readers. It would however be an epic way to troll them. WAHAHA!

If it's included, I hope that the devs can maintain the same degree of verisimilitude (teens, especially virgin teens, aren't likely to be acting out fetish porn scenes when they get intimate)

I disagree. If the game wishes to avoid getting bad rep from being "simulated child pornography" (banned in some countries, shunned as politically incorrect in others) it cannot have a single character under the age of 18 participating in any form of sex. And by the age of 18, many people are not virgins (and even virgins might have had access to pornography). Some virgins have practiced petting or oral sex. That's also a reality. Of course these are realities in very few Japanese made erotic VNs because their idea of "pure love" (ren'ai) might be a bit twisted on "first love". Then again, they mix a lot of virgin defloration to rape fetish genre erotic games as well... so I guess it's OK to say Japs are simply just fucked up. Hey, speaking the truth isn't racist. :-p

I just finished Kanon, and I can one major issue that KEY did when they added the H-scenes after the VN came out.

Kanon was made primarily as non-H visual novel. Don't expect the H-scenes to be that relevant.

If anything makes me cringe in stories, it's attempts at 'deep' sex scenes. Really, when writers try to end up writing some screwing 'but more than just porn', they usually end up writing even less than porn. A deep sex scene is like a deep eating scene or a deep crapping scene.

HAHAHA! Don't forget a deep throating scene.

I don't mind a sex scene relevant to the plot, and I would like them even referenced in non-H scenes (instead of ignored and assumed not happened) but I do understand what's bad about the real deeeeeeep sex scenes: the ones who try to be over-the-top in cheese and romantic development, filled with dialogue and/or written feelings of the protagonist... even during rapid piston movement. It might be a bit... out-of-place. Usually majority of "AI RABU JUUS" happen before and/or after sex... and the between can be pure primordial, animalistic lust.

Also, when it comes to sexual preferences, even the most romantic and cuddly people can become rather BDSM beasts (of either S or M variety) once they get over the biggest step of telling their fantasies to their partner. A strong-minded feminist can become a sex slave and demand to be called a "whore". And so on.

But there's also the inverse of the rule: people with BDSM fetish occasionally want it vanilla (or even deep vanilla with all the cheesy cuddle). Human sexuality is complex. There's also the concept of "comfort sex" which tends to be quite softcore. Make-up sex isn't always comfort sex, though. It might (or might not be).

Still, vanilla or SO HARDCORE, I hope the sex scenes are written to the main story line and referenced properly. There's also one thing that tends to get ignored: flirt. And how crossing the line from just friends to lovers (or fuck-buddies) affect daily dialogue. Basically KS Shizune's route is an example of this bad writing where you couldn't tell anything about the relationship's status without watching the H-scenes. The were totally plastered on. But it was a bad route anyway, at least from the beginning of ACT 2.

[WolfHunner]

I assume the Holm twins would have separate sex scenes right?

[Likhos]

You expect the MC to have sex with both at the same time?

Well, this might be an eroge but, heh, IMHO that's too much, asking for that. Take one, that's fine enough.

(Plot twist: both are lesbian. dum dum duuuuuum)